User talk:Celellach

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RE: Questions[edit source]

(Putting this here because profile comments can be hard to organize)

We could definitely redesign the talent table some if you think it'd help readability. I'll put together a mock-up that's more similar to the nexus's layout.

The bot isn't maintained by me, but I can ask the team that runs it if they can make those changes to the image pages.

I'm not sure why the bot is putting ;False after all the skills... I'll ask them about that too. In theory it should be "skillname;key;icon;desc;cooldown;energycost", but I remember them saying something about the cost/cooldown were part of the descriptions rather than being separate fields and they didn't have a good way to parse them out. I'll ask if that has changed.

I noticed that this page Data:Champions/Brightwing was edited by you guys a lot. I think internally Brightwing's data is at Data:Champions/FaerieDragon since that is the page the bot was updating most recently. If that is the case, then that page should be the dominant one and Brightwing should have "|datapage=Data:Champions/FaerieDragon". I'll ask the bot team what's up with those pages to be sure though.

Also, you guys shouldn't really need to edit the Data pages, the bot should be doing that. If the bot isn't doing something right, or it needs to be re-run because of updates to the game, let me know. That's why the data template is so massive and some of the fields aren't labeled and have odd formatting (like the skills and talents), the data namespace is meant for the bot to dump data into. XD --Sigilbaram (talk) 19:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Sigilbaram for the detailed reply! I had a feeling that the data pages should be updated automatically and not manually but it seems that something went wrong along the way as the data in some of the fields isn't up-to-date - such as the "lore" and "skins" field (even though those aren't even used). In addition, I noticed that the skills aren't placed in the same order, which is usually "trait, Q, W, E, R, R" but sometimes, the R is after the trait. Also we don't copy over the mount button details for characters that have a different functioning mount button (but to be honest, for the sake of completion, I'd prefer every character have that button info displayed). Also, if you look at Data:Champions/Kaelthas, you'll see that the "trait" and "Heroic Ability" text is placed in the wrong place.
Regarding the data page names, if the team can change the names they use to match the actual names (and not in CamelCase format) that would be much better and will stop confusion (and it also helps with the rest of the cleaning I'm doing):
  • FaerieDragon into Brightwing
  • Diablo classes into their actual names (Sonya, Valla, Nazeebo, Joanna)
  • L90ETC into E.T.C.
  • LostVikings into The Lost Vikings
  • Butcher into The Butcher
  • SgtHammer into Sgt. Hammer
  • Tinker into Gazlowe
  • Kaelthas into Kael'thas
If I can help in anything let me know and thanks for helping with the redesign. --Celellach (talk) 22:15, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Also, just noticed that Health and Health regen are not being added (Raynor, Li Li) --Celellach (talk) 08:56, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Health and Health Regen are called life and lifeRegen in the data dump, but {{Hero data}} was using health and healthRegen for some reason. I adjusted {{Hero data}} so that it would work again, but I left health and healthRegen as alternatives.
I put together a new talent layout, with an example here. Let me know if you think it could be improved or if you think it is good to go. --Sigilbaram (talk) 18:40, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
There is some redundancy in that layout with the talent names atm because of the way talent descriptions are currently done, but I put that in my requests next to fixing the skill descriptions. --Sigilbaram (talk) 18:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
For the skill icon pages do you have an example page of what those should look like? --Sigilbaram (talk) 18:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Sigilbaram, the talent layout is great! Hopefully the name redundancy is fixed soon. Noticed that in your sandbox version Li Li is missing Bolt of the Storm (tier 7, option number 5). Have any idea why? As for a skill/talent icon page, this is a good example: File:Extended Spikes Icon.png
Sigilbaram, in-game "skills" are called "abilities". So regarding the category the bot should auto-add, the example given at File:Extended Spikes Icon.png is incorrect. It should be Category:Anub'arak abilities and talents icons (or maybe in singular? Category:Anub'arak ability and talent icons) instead of Category:Anub'arak skills and talents icons. The hero templates calling it skills will also need to be updated to reflect this. --Celellach (talk) 12:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
Sigilbaram, Egrem is uploading in-game ability images for each hero and adding them to the Gallery section. I think it would serve better to be put at the ability section itself (as a thumbnail on the right side). Can this be done so that the bot won't remove it with each update it does? --Celellach (talk) 08:15, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Sigilbaram, Hey, any updates on this?

Moving pages by copy paste[edit source]

There is a bug in SMW which shows up when you move a page that has custom SMW properties using the move action (you can check if a page has properties using "Browse Properties" in the toolbox). This is why Kandooww was copy pasting things, instead of moving them. There are other bugs in the version of SMW we use as well, so we are in the process of upgrading SMW to a newer version. It's a complicated extension, though, so they have to re-work our extension install process some in order to make installing and upgrading it easier, which is why it's taking longer than normal. I do agree that not keeping the page history is far from ideal, though. For the moment, unless something REALLY needs to be moved ASAP, it might be better to leave pages where they are until SMW is updated. --Sigilbaram (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok I see. But just to be clear, the page in question couldn't be moved by me at the time since I did not have admin rights and the page was a redirect with history (which had to be deleted in order for the move to happen). --Celellach (talk) 08:57, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Release Date Infobox[edit source]

Hello Celellach,

I'm the one who added in the "Release Date ______" bit into each Hero's bio, and I noticed you reverted all these changes. Please allow me to explain:

You are right: it was the wrong place to add that information - it should be included in the Infobox section. Sadly, however, I was not able to learn how to successfully make those changes to the "Infobox template" - or whatever it's called, so I did all I could.

You are also probably correct in that it is unconventional in a Wiki to add 'blank' information, however I am a new player (2 days old) to the game, and I simply do not know the Release Dates. I spent a cursory amount of time attempting to research it, however I personally do not wish to do this (again) for another game, especially since it seems so few records have been kept.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with another popular game called Warframe. Their Wiki also did not keep track of 'Hero' release date information for over 2 YEARS. I eventually found accurate dates for 62% of them. It is pretty difficult, I can tell you, to parse through 2 years of forum posts just to determine a single accurate date that could have (and should have) been added by whoever made each Heroes' Wikia page since day one.

Luckily, after I added most of the dates by myself, they began the trend which they still follow today: always add release date information. It is so-so-so-sooooo easy to add it as new Heroes are created, but if you ignore it for a year or two: GOOD LUCK.

My Suggestion: It is likely you are much more experienced in Wiki-editing than I am; as such, I believe it would be extremely beneficial to add a "Release Date" section to every Hero's Infobox. Perhaps leaving it temporarily 'blank' would encourage other Wiki contributors to fill it in. It can be a rather large project for one person alone and, after all, that is the whole point of having a Wiki, is it not? - to pool resources and have everyone contribute little bits that turn into something huge.

My Word of Warning: If we do not start adding Release Date information now, it will become extremely-painstakingly difficult to add it 2, 3, or 4 years from now when there are hundreds of Heroes and no one even vaguely remembers when they were released, and article links are broken. Common questions asked by 99% of all players will be unanswerable, such as:

1) "I wonder when the next Hero will be released? / How long does it take to release a Hero?" 2) "When was the last Hero released?" 3) "I wonder how old the older/newer Heroes are?" 4) "How many Heroes are released per year?"

Thank you for your time. Please don't erase this issue completely. Heroes of the Storm has been played since Jan. 13, 2015. In those 194+ days, no one has bothered to keep track of dates. It took the Warframe Wiki nearly 1,000 days (2.8 years) before I came along and got them to start adding date info. HotS will probably end up exactly the same if you don't stop the trend soon.

Like I said to you somewhere else, I agree that they should be added. However, adding tasks in the middle of an article is not the way. If you want, you can add a notice on its talk page (like you did on mine) so that way others will know its missing. The infobox is a good place for it, but it also should be added to the lead, just not how you did it. I will do a Johanna example so you can see what I mean. Also, a few notes for wiki editing. When you write on a talk page, please sign your posts with --~~~~ so others will know who wrote it (there is also an icon at the top of the editing page you can click on that does this). Also, when starting a new section in talk pages, always create it as the last section, that way people will know what is the newest one. --Celellach (talk) 07:37, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

SMW[edit source]

We can no longer support Semantic MediaWiki in our environment and will be removing it as soon as possible. How heavily invested are you in it on this particular wiki? We will provide as much help as we can to convert any templates or pages you have that use it — Game widow (talk) 14:05, 17 January 2018 (UTC)